I am psyched, Obama is now I think doing the right thing about the Torture Memos!
Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Gonzo, even Rice knew and okayed this in advance. In regard to Abu Ghraib they were the "few bad apples" Rummy said was acting up! I can not believe Darth Cheney really does want a fight over the torture memos. The ass says they will vindicate him. I believe without a doubt they would hang him. However the scum knows they can not be released. Thus that knowledge frees the attack dog Cheney to stupidly assert that he and Bush were right and President Obama is wrong. His interference is unprecedented as torture is for the US and I just wish he would shut up and stop trying to justify Nazism! Obama Open to Probe, Prosecutions of Top Officials Over Interrogations
Facing much warranted criticism Obama now says prosecuting CIA torturers is off the table but not for those who wrote the illegal laws enabling torture. I agree! However I have to laugh that at this point Obama thinks prosecuting them can be done bipartisanly. Forget it! At least The Door Is Open. Obama: Be careful with any CIA investigations
I do not have to tell you, Cheney is soft as a grapefruit if he really thinks the torture tapes will vindicate him and Bush. As I said, ha supposedly wants them all released but he he can say that because he knows that can not happen. He is not a purveyor of honesty. He is not the one to defend our security as 9/11 happened on his watch or lack there of. Defending Iraq, torture, anything rquiring honesty is off the books with Cheney or any of his cronies. I do have to say, Feinstein is right here saying any judgment should be curtailed until all information can be looked at. She knows it will implicate the Bush mis-Administration right to the top as she and Pelosi feigning indignation now knew all along of the desire to torture.
Justice Department Lawyers she be outed and held accountable. None are above the rule of law even Darth Cheney, burn him! Actually we know who the enablers were that wrote the now infamous torture tapes. They were written by former injustice Department Lawyers John Yoo and Jay Bybee. They enabled Bush and Cheney to Torture and they were not alone. The White House told Ashcroft to justify ways to torture and Rummy the Dummy approved 15 questionable techniques used by the military in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and Afghanistan. That the military was torturing I find very disturbing, sorry! The Washington Independent » Using Law to Justify Torture
No wonder Darth Cheney is so anal retentive. We should be able to go after Bush too. He wanted better ways to torture found. Better ways? Why not just put their heads in vices and turn? They wanted the torture safer. Safer from what prosecution? Deputy to Secretary of State Condi Rice said grounds to torture were shaky at best. Knowing this the CIA was ordered to destroy the tapes because torture exceeded the standards of accepted behavior. What's new? All the enablers should be held accountable. Hell Hitler and his henchmen were!
I reiterate, Cheney supposedly finds it disturbing that all the memos were not put out to show water boarding works. A former Bush adviser spoke out that the memos would not hold Constitutions water but his views were dismissed as extreme. He told the truth. He wanted the rule of law followed. How contra-ire. How counter Bush and Cheney. The nerve to think they could not say or do what they wanted to follow their fascist not so well hidden agenda. I just found out the CIA was training 8 months to torture before a lie was even contrived to do it!
All Cheney's lies about 9/11, Saddam, WMD, Iraq, everything, all lies and we are supposed to believe him? What a friggen idiot. I hate that snarling lying two faced scum. He is again passing crap when he should shut up. He is accusing Obama of cozying up with enemies like Ortega. These asinine personal attacks show the entire world we are in turmoil. That is why Iran is posturing, Russians is closing in on Georgia, and the Taliban has just offered safe haven to Bin Laden. The Taliban has also said they are going to start enlarging their realm. Since the border right there all the way to and including Iran is where they believe the end of days war will be we better realize this is just starting and the Fascist Republicans are going to have to unite with us and the rest of the world or there will be no future.
* In closing Yes the world is evil!! As we know and Cheney and Bush proved evil begets evil.Look what the evil twins Bush and Cheney got us. After 8 years of lies and deception to do wrong for us and the world we better start doing things right. Obama seems to be doing alright and is the best hope we have. Bush and Cheney hijacked the country after 9/11, attacked Iraq, and Bankrupt America. Cheney is disturbed because apologized to Europe, Mexico, South America, and everyone Bush and Cheney screwed over. Believe me he had to. Obama is destroying Bush's version of America he built while destroying our version. He is rebuilding our America and Cheney is pissed, expressing the anger Bush can not. If we get attacked again it is because of Cheney. Obama is leaving the door open on those who engineered the torture memos. I hope it hits Cheney right in the head. I am sick of his cheap shots. The scum is irrational!
James Joiner
Gardner, Ma
www.anaveragepatriot.com
6 comments:
I find it interesting that the torture went on even before the memos were even written. It seems that they were CYOAing after the fact with the legal opinions and memos. I also find it interesting that the military tried to bring objections to the methods when these memos were being written.
Did these methods produce produce any new revealing information? Not according to former intelligence officers. If this article is true then Cheney is just adding more possible charges to the case:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/22/2009-04-22_dick_cheney_full_of_crap_official.html
I can understand Obama's position. He doesn't want to alienate the intelligence community but as I may have written before it's not up to Obama. This is a criminal matter and as such must be dealt with by the Justice department. It will be interesting to see who takes the fall for all of this. Right now I'm thinking it won't go all the way to the top. Exactly how they'll skate on the charges is difficult to say as the AGs office and the judiciary committee is still gathering info. And you'll notice that those close to the investigation will not really say much other than we'll get to the bottom of this and it's in process. All I can say is they better hurry up as the statute of limitations is starting to run out.
Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Gonzo, Rice and ByBeee and Woo , they should all be tried! Nuremberg trials that is what we need!
It is heartening to see people upset about this issue. It has sickened me for a long time. Finally, I have hope that maybe something will happen. These people deserve to suffer. This is where I'd like to believe in karma or in hell...that if they don't get what they deserve here that they would get it somewhere else, in another life or another type of existence.
James, would you define to me, in which context you are using "lifer", as someone who spents a life long prison sentence or someone who has dedicated his professional life to service in the military.
I see bloggers and people everywhere getting really upset and feeling completely un-understanding about this torture-issue.
frankly to me, the worst part about things like torture to me is the ultimate taboo is presents. You see, whatever we can't look at and feel uncomfortable with, we will be effect of.
To me usually the people who scream loudest against it, will be the ones who oftyen are most likely to perform it, when the time comes.
What I mean is: man is capable of unbelieveble cruelty towards his fellow man, but he's also capable of unlimeted love, caring and understanding.
Frankly I must say, I am having a hard time seeing soldiers getting prosecuted for following orders and what do people think, it's like out there? Do they seriously think the enemy gives a fuck about ROEs, conventions of Geneva and other laws and agreements?! Do they just expect those who are willing to take a little bit of responsebility for the conditions their fellow men are living under to be sitting ducks and turn the other cheek? For people unfamiliar with the stench of a littlered battlefield or other a little rougher experiences in life, it is very easy to sit back in their comfortable soft chairs at home and judge others who in fact are quite easy targets when it comes to finding a scapegoat!
Having said that, I am really having a very hard time seeing how cutting a detainie's penis 20+ times will produced reliable intel or has been exactly what the CO's orders stated! Obviously there have been sick individuals at work here who were themselves effect of group-pressure and twisted group-reality and had a complete lack of moral standards and no concept of ethical conduct! that in itself, even if no crime had been committed, is very tragic and a reason for concern!
As for prosecuting the guilty ones: well, justice is a nice thing and nescessary if we want people to know that good people also have a chance of surviving.
But the problem is: how often do the actual facts see the light of day? When do the real ciminals ever get exposed?
Another reason for why I have reservations is my complete lack of faith in the justice system.
All it has to offer is panishment. But nothing improves for us, if we panish guilty people. We can eventually lock up the last person on the planet, run out of work force and human resources completely... buthe only thing that works in the real world is rehabilitating people!
One has to break it to them in such a way that they volunteerely would express the desire to make up the damage towards the victims and society.
And for the victims:
the question arises why some scream so loud and are very quick at complaining and pointing fingers, when others just suffer quietly.
And why is it that they become victims in the first place?
frankly the penis-guy who's diary is published in the paper doesn't seem all that innocent to me, if you view both him and his words closely.
He may not be guilty of what he has been accused of, but he may very well hide something else and naturally an interrogator senses that.
Finanlly seen from the point of view of actual victims is one of many nasty things where someone is overwhealmed forcefully against his will with evil intent. No society can survive, if such actutions are taking place and are encouraged because the issue is in fact much more serious than it seems, it's not just about inflicting a little pain on a couple of unfortunate ones, it's about holding mankind pinned down and about erasing freedom.
However, the victim's situation will not be enhanced by cuccumbing to hating those who have performed the harmful acts against them or by watching them receiving a cruel panishment as well. That would in fact worsen their situation and so will "feeling sorry for them" and "judging". Seeing eye to eye, seaking revenge... all that indicates that the victim himself is on the way down and that they truely have succeeded with their mission to break him/her.
More than anything else, victims have a need to preserve their integrity and not to fall for the temptation of sinking down to the same level. The only solution is to seek justice in fair spirit, by getting each case and all the circumstances viewed correctly and in a non-misleading, non-manipulative manner and by putting all facts on the table and then finding a way of how the guilty ones can be brought to justice in such a way, that it actually is beneficial for both the victims and society and not that they end up becomming an even bigger liability!
The victims themselves have a need to understand what happened, understand how and why things came about and why some people can't stop themselves doing what they do. If one can get to that stage, where one can understand and in spite all have some affinity for those who have done wrong, one has a chance of getting over it, otherwise, when it's just hatred that is dominating the victims thoughts, he is in quite a state of being at an effect point, completely pinned down still and his wounds, both physial and mental will never heal, unless he changes his attitude.
Yeah, really unfair: you've gotta love them anyway, in spite of all they did! But if you don't take the first step yourself into a diffenrent direction towards higher realms, the circle will never be broken!
Hi B E
You know I agree. They are saying now that there are those in both party's that would hang so it is likely that nothing will get done. I still can't believe we did that. We should stay above that it is our moral. I do get bothered by those who say it will make our enemies do it. Hell that would be child's play to the Taliban.
Sarah Sofia
Gee I never thought about that. They are making a career of the military. One if EOD, one is air crew in a C17, and the other is a combat engineer. They are all different but hard core disciplined good men.
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