Stop the torture Debate already, call their Bluff, Investigate!

Republicans led by Cheney want a torture debate. Call his bluff! He says he wants all the torture tapes made public as he wants you to think if they are they will vindicate him. He stupidly thinks he is being brazen and as a result of being in your face people will back down and say it is not worth it, forget it. It is worth it. Call his Bluff! While they are at it they should do an analysis first. It will save them the time and trouble. Do a simple comparison between those that were tortured and those that were not. Compare the information they divulged and determine if it was actionable or truthful. Any way you look at it they did not make a single arrest based on the information they gleaned after all these years of great success by Bush and Cheney!

Once again these idiots are trying to intimidate and control us. Call their Bluff. Give them enough rope to hang themselves and they will. Cheney just wants us to get hit again. Anti torture McCain is against torture but is backing Cheney's stand. McCain should step up instead of backing McCain as that makes him guilty too. It is out and at this point it is indefensible. Whenever we are hit again and we will be as far as I am concerned it will be exclusively Cheney's fault. He has goaded it at the very least but you know he will blame it on Obama and simply say I told you so.

If he really cared he would seek an audience with Obama and explain his views on success and how to proceed. Obama could take it in and regurgitate it if he wanted. He could take it or leave it and Cheney knows it is counter productive and Obama would ignore any direct advice from Cheney as he does the advice Cheney gives in his admonitions to the MSM to try and destabilize Obama and make him fail. I know Cheney's motive but what the heck is McCain's? He sad when defeated that he would support his President but who is that? He seems to be just one more Republican who wants to block Obama and keep him from being popular but as it seems I say every day now, they will all fail.

At this point I think Obama is right to personally stay out of this and let Holder take control of the issue. I am beginning to trust the man and unlike Bush's AG who did everything Political so Bush could prosecute his mess unimpeded Holder is going to be apolitical. He will do the right thing for the Constitution not for Obama's gain and let the chips fall where they may. Holder will find the truth behind this torture history as if we ignore history we are doomed to repeat it. Bush the idiot was fond of saying that while in every instance ignoring all history so he could worsen it exponentially as he has done in every instance.

Any way you look at it there was torture going on. If what was going on was so legal Republicans would not be trying to spread blame to the Democrats to share the blame. If it was so legal there would not have been torture memos in the first place. Gee I have to laugh! It just dawned on me that this is the first time since the advent of Bush that Republicans have wanted Bipartisanship in anything. They want to spread the blame isn't that cute? How Republican! Just take the credit for your efforts and let the chips fall where they may. Burn those fascist scum!

I Just heard Senator Arlen Specter just switched to the Democratic party wow that is big. Damn I wish they would all jump ship. Come on! This is cataclysmic for the Republicans. With Franken that gives the Democrats their 60 seats. Yahoo a filibuster proof majority. Now we will get things done. Republicans were going to make him pay for voting with Democrats on the stimulus. Well I guess he showed them. Specter knows the Democrats are doing the right thing for America and Arlen wants to be on the right side of history. I am psyched, I did not expect this.

Anyway back to the Fascist party! Speaking of that, Sean Hannity who is a main stream hard core fascist Republican Backs Cheney and his torture agenda. He is a Republican extremist to the nth degree. I heard that, that mindless slime had volunteered to be water boarded. Of course knowing the standard mouthiness I believed it right off the bat. Hannity made that statement in front of millions including an audience of veterans and their families. Hell I saw the clip, now he is hiding and for good reason. He said that to the head of the military's SEER school (survive, evade, escape, recover) Big mistake! Mike Ritz a former SEER school instructor to water board Hannity. He said I guarantee you water boarding is torture and I can even get Hannity to say I love the Keith Olbermann show. I would pay to watch that and then slap the idiot silly. Enough of these scum, enough, and they just keep getting worse!

James Joiner
Gardner, Ma
www.anaveragepatriot.com

Darth Cheney wants a fight with Obama over the Torturous memos!

I am psyched, Obama is now I think doing the right thing about the Torture Memos!

Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Gonzo, even Rice knew and okayed this in advance. In regard to Abu Ghraib they were the "few bad apples" Rummy said was acting up! I can not believe Darth Cheney really does want a fight over the torture memos. The ass says they will vindicate him. I believe without a doubt they would hang him. However the scum knows they can not be released. Thus that knowledge frees the attack dog Cheney to stupidly assert that he and Bush were right and President Obama is wrong. His interference is unprecedented as torture is for the US and I just wish he would shut up and stop trying to justify Nazism! Obama Open to Probe, Prosecutions of Top Officials Over Interrogations

Facing much warranted criticism Obama now says prosecuting CIA torturers is off the table but not for those who wrote the illegal laws enabling torture. I agree! However I have to laugh that at this point Obama thinks prosecuting them can be done bipartisanly. Forget it! At least The Door Is Open. Obama: Be careful with any CIA investigations

I do not have to tell you, Cheney is soft as a grapefruit if he really thinks the torture tapes will vindicate him and Bush. As I said, ha supposedly wants them all released but he he can say that because he knows that can not happen. He is not a purveyor of honesty. He is not the one to defend our security as 9/11 happened on his watch or lack there of. Defending Iraq, torture, anything rquiring honesty is off the books with Cheney or any of his cronies. I do have to say, Feinstein is right here saying any judgment should be curtailed until all information can be looked at. She knows it will implicate the Bush mis-Administration right to the top as she and Pelosi feigning indignation now knew all along of the desire to torture.

Justice Department Lawyers she be outed and held accountable. None are above the rule of law even Darth Cheney, burn him! Actually we know who the enablers were that wrote the now infamous torture tapes. They were written by former injustice Department Lawyers John Yoo and Jay Bybee. They enabled Bush and Cheney to Torture and they were not alone. The White House told Ashcroft to justify ways to torture and Rummy the Dummy approved 15 questionable techniques used by the military in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, and Afghanistan. That the military was torturing I find very disturbing, sorry! The Washington Independent » Using Law to Justify Torture
No wonder Darth Cheney is so anal retentive. We should be able to go after Bush too. He wanted better ways to torture found. Better ways? Why not just put their heads in vices and turn? They wanted the torture safer. Safer from what prosecution? Deputy to Secretary of State Condi Rice said grounds to torture were shaky at best. Knowing this the CIA was ordered to destroy the tapes because torture exceeded the standards of accepted behavior. What's new? All the enablers should be held accountable. Hell Hitler and his henchmen were!

I reiterate, Cheney supposedly finds it disturbing that all the memos were not put out to show water boarding works. A former Bush adviser spoke out that the memos would not hold Constitutions water but his views were dismissed as extreme. He told the truth. He wanted the rule of law followed. How contra-ire. How counter Bush and Cheney. The nerve to think they could not say or do what they wanted to follow their fascist not so well hidden agenda. I just found out the CIA was training 8 months to torture before a lie was even contrived to do it!

All Cheney's lies about 9/11, Saddam, WMD, Iraq, everything, all lies and we are supposed to believe him? What a friggen idiot. I hate that snarling lying two faced scum. He is again passing crap when he should shut up. He is accusing Obama of cozying up with enemies like Ortega. These asinine personal attacks show the entire world we are in turmoil. That is why Iran is posturing, Russians is closing in on Georgia, and the Taliban has just offered safe haven to Bin Laden. The Taliban has also said they are going to start enlarging their realm. Since the border right there all the way to and including Iran is where they believe the end of days war will be we better realize this is just starting and the Fascist Republicans are going to have to unite with us and the rest of the world or there will be no future.

* In closing Yes the world is evil!! As we know and Cheney and Bush proved evil begets evil.Look what the evil twins Bush and Cheney got us. After 8 years of lies and deception to do wrong for us and the world we better start doing things right. Obama seems to be doing alright and is the best hope we have. Bush and Cheney hijacked the country after 9/11, attacked Iraq, and Bankrupt America. Cheney is disturbed because apologized to Europe, Mexico, South America, and everyone Bush and Cheney screwed over. Believe me he had to. Obama is destroying Bush's version of America he built while destroying our version. He is rebuilding our America and Cheney is pissed, expressing the anger Bush can not. If we get attacked again it is because of Cheney. Obama is leaving the door open on those who engineered the torture memos. I hope it hits Cheney right in the head. I am sick of his cheap shots. The scum is irrational!

James Joiner
Gardner, Ma
www.anaveragepatriot.com

Tortured over the torture memo's!

Video: USA: Release of CIA interrogation memos



Former Bush Officials Warn Against Release of Legal Memos on

Disappointment with US not prosecuting CIA

1973 Church Committee Hearings, on CIA misdeeds, and the 1984 Iran/Contra Hearings Once again we show we have not learned anything. We did this before and you know things only got worse for us!

You know by now that Obama has ordered the release of the terror memo's, the torture tapes.Civil rights lawyers warned Napolitano on releasing the documents showing the targeting of Muslims but she had no choice as Obama ordered their release. I have to agree with them. It seems to me that the danger to us and our troops has now jumped exponentially.I do not think releasing all this information was a wise move. This will only serve to piss of Islamists, terrorists, whatever you call them, even more.

I am against torture to start with but I have a horse in this race! Three of my sons are in the military. I do not like the idea of them being tortured to start with. I was upset when Bush and Cheney came out and said torture was okay as long as you helped the country. I started worrying about my sons being tortured because of them. Now I am worried that Obama releasing this information to the public will now endanger them and us even more think this was a wise move.

The justice departments release of the brutal techniques used routinely at Guantanamo under Bush and Cheney will only work against us. What the hell are they thinking. This will please no one on the right or the left not to speak of the Islamists, terrorists, or whatever you call them.

Okay lets talk torture! Water boarding we have discussed many times. That most definitely is torture and there is no gray area there. However sleep deprivation? I can handle that. If that is torture I guess that is a kinder gentler version. I will take that to having my finger and toe nails pulled out any day. We knew about the water boarding and sleep deprivation for quite a while but throwing people against walls what the heck is that? Slapping? Nudity, confinement with insects, sleeping in coffins, that is torture?

Stress positioning, throwing cold water on you? Beats the hell out of hot water. As I said, I do not know if that is torture. Maybe in one set of eyes but not another but any way you look at it I can not see putting this information out there as being good for us. We could have told the CIA and the world there is a new cop in town and what was done in the past will not be done again end of discussion.

Obama said he wanted this information out so we could get it all behind us. I am not sure it was not to make Bush look bad and make him look good. He also said no one will be prosecuted which I do agree with. They were only torturing. They were only doing what they were told seriously. Bush and Cheney should be held accountable and tried. Obama said they were only keeping us safe. That I take issue with. It was not their fault but I do not think torture kept us safe but endangered all of us exponentially both civilian and military!

Releasing this information sounds like a bad idea to me and not because of what I hear proponents say. They say so called terrorists now know how far we can go and will train accordingly. BS I say! They have learned first hand that an American President will do whatever it takes to keep America safe. At least that is what we are led to believe. I think if they just look at Obama the man they know he is no Bush and there will be no torture. This does get the left off his back and I disagree with most of what was done but it seems like "just say no" would have sufficed.

This will now weaken us in many ways! Detailing the CIA tactics under Bush makes him look bad and Obama good, that seems like the only motivation. It will really help in forming Bush's image and legacy. That I like! I like that more of Bush's brutal policies have been laid bare. All in all I like this for that reason and nothing else.

* In closing! Obama says releasing the torture memo's was because because that was a dark chapter in or history and now it is behind us and we can move on. I disagree! It was behind us and we did move on. Now it has been published and it will continue to haunt us. What the hell was he thinking or did I already hit it? All sides are now going to be up in arms and not just Muslims. Obama is being called hypocritical and is getting it from the left and the right. From the left for denying prosecution of Cheney and Bush? From the right because they feel we are more vulnerable now. Me I am confused and don't know how to feel. I can't wait to hear from Cheney about Obama encouraging another attack. More later I am sure!

James Joiner
Gardner, Ma
www.anaveragepatriot.com