Sunday, July 22, 2007

In Bush's misguided effort to bring Democracy to the middle east he might've inadvertantly done right for the wrong reason But!

In Bush's misguided effort to bring Democracy to the middle east he might've done right for the wrong reason, but we must leave now in order to benefit from it!
I was watching the talk shows this morning about Bush, his democratization efforts in the middle east, and Iraq. Of course you never hear the right take but only bias Partisan rhetoric so each side can follow the course they want. It did though set me to thinking!
I think we can all agree that it was the dead wrong thing Bush did when he diverted from the so called war on terror to attack Iraq not to save Iraqi's from Saddam but to get America's military in the middle east and as I keep saying, he will leave for nothing until he at least attacks Iran and really gets this going.
Anyway listening to the talk shows and communication with many of you we always come to the common sensed conclusion that Bush should not have attacked Iraq. Iraq is in civil war and many of us believe it will spread throughout the middle east and then really get going. The problem for us is that Bush will stay in the middle of that still developing mess until he can use our forces elsewhere in the area.
If you think only about the larger issue being the so called global war on terror and nothing else, if Bush had unseated Saddam in another fashion as he should have done and pulled out immediately as he should have done, this really could have worked in our favor. We all know Muslims for whatever reason think only their sect and the way they practice their faith is right and acceptable. All other sects including those in their own that do not practice it the way the dominant force thinks they should, should be killed.
We keep saying the Islamists will only concentrate on killing each other once we leave for whatever reason. We talk about the middle east breaking down to Sunni against Shiite and Bush right in the middle attempting to assert his new middle east order. Then it dawned on me!
I am not the only one that believes that, we do not want it but this is a war between us and the majority of Islam. With that in mind we should pull out of Iraq immediately if fighting terrorism was Bush's real goal. We should concentrate on fortifying America for the inevitable. Watching Pakistan, Afghanistan, and too many other parts of the world we know this is still just getting started and our efforts will be needed and better served elsewhere.
Meanwhile, that explosion in the middle east that Bush started if handled right could work out in our favor if we were to leave right now but you know that will not happen. That so called civil war will not be stopped whether we leave today or 100 years from now. We should realize we cannot stop them from killing each other and step back and let them do their thing.
There is nothing we can do now to stop it. Allowing them to do so would keep them busy and save us a lot of unnecessary trouble. Anyway you look at it I think if we took ourselves out of their mix they would merely concentrate on each other instead of trying to get us off their land. I cannot envision them ever getting along with each other if we were not there to give them a reason to come together. The enemy of our enemy is our enemy!
I am always concerned with Pakistan falling apart and those nukes falling into Islamist hands where they would be instantly used on us and our interests and they would be. That aside and Russia and China, I think we have enough on our plate and we should let the civil war commence without us because it would keep them busy for a while. When they are ready they will be following us home regardless of Partisan rhetoric but we would be more ready if we concentrated on America and not Bush's new world order.
Anyway, with the middle east exploding Sunni against Shiite, Pakistan being 77% Sunni 20% Shiite and erupting, Russia and China having their own Muslim problems, Africa, Indonesia, and most of the rest of the world, it seems we would be best served at this point to protect ourselves and sit back and watch Islam fight it out amidst themselves for now. What do you think?

James Joiner
Gardner, Ma


Todd Dugdale said...

I really don't think we at war with Islam as a whole. The Wahabists are a very small fraction of Muslims worldwide. What support they have is largely from the presence of foreign troops (i.e. us) in their holy lands (i.e. Saudi Arabia and Iraq).
America is seen as bully on the world stage by a lot of the planet, Muslim or not. True or not, that is the perception.

an average patriot said...

Nice to hear from you, Point well taken!
Myself, knowing you are right that they want us off their territory we are in serious trouble around the entire world.
Not just Africa, the middle east, Basque Spain, Indonesia, parts of Russia, Europe, etc. they want it all back.
They once had it and want it all back and more. Sadly it is not as isolated as most think. this has been growung for years and the Enlightenment sealed the fate.
This will be the longest, the most wide spread, and the worst the world has ever seen.
With Bush doing to America and Christianity what he accuses the Islamists of doing to Islam this is still just beginning and will be bad.

LET'S TALK said...

I agree to some of your concept but not all. Bush has caused a big problem in the Middle East and sure it will just get worse.

We should have found Osama and ended his wasteful Life and brought our Military back home long ago.

We are now faced with the possibility of President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan being murdered because we are pushing him to do more to capture or run out Al Qaeda from his mountains.

If he is killed then we are faced with the possibility of nuclear weapons in the hands of Al Qaeda.

China might get involved because of the killings of their citizens. Right now Pakistan is and unstable area being held up barely by Musharraf.

Then theirs always India right next door with their nuclear weapons and a flagrant dislike of Pakistan.

If we packed up with all our weapons, equipment and anything else that we brought to Iraq and just left, then I think for a while you will have all kinds of trouble.

First Al Qaeda will be flushed out of Iraq by none other than Muqtada al-Sadr. There is Iyad Allawi, the Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, who has tires in both Iraq and Pakistan, Jalal Talabani, the Kurdish President of Iraq, and Ibrahim Jaafari who will surly come together in some way to get control of Iraq by making it a three state country.

America just need to, as you say, sit on the sidelines and see what happens. Except for a problem occurring between Iran and Israel, that is about all we can do.

When it comes to Iran, America will not sit by an watch a war develop among Israel and Iran, because that would put a different twist to all that was stated above.

an average patriot said...

Lets talk
First I want to say thanks for responding. Now I want to say
You are entirely right and it is a lot worse. On top of everything you mentioned is the fact that yes Pakistan is a friend of Iran but with a 77% Sunni population Pakistan will explode but many of them will join Al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia against Iran and Al Sadr.
This is quite a still unfolding mess Bush purposely created and the only way to stop it is to never have ignored all advice to the contrary and attack Iraq just to get our military into the middle east but Bush will not leave now and the hell on earth he created is just beginning.

Larry said...


Today is Lydia's birthday and I hope you can stop by and leave your birthday greetings.

Thank you!

Larry said...

I'll be back later to comment on this article. Busy morning.

an average patriot said...

Very glad to hear that. I was wondering why I haven't heard from you. I have been E'ing Mike information I believe he is finding titillating. I will be glad to wish her a Happy Birthday and job well done. She is on vacation, lucky them.

an average patriot said...

Always glad to have your input. It just kills me that everyone cannot see the unavoidable total world chaos Bush has set in motion. All I can do is shake my head.
I told Worfeus yesterday that I was leaning towards spending the majority of my time focused on My own and Lydia's Blog but he naver said anything about that.

an average patriot said...

I commented a few times on the peasants revolt story but I think Worfeus didn't like what I said. I know Lydia wasn't advocating revolt.
He is concerned with trolls. It is terrible that you cannot express concern for what is being done today and how to fix it without worrying about getting messed over for it. This is all really terrible for us and our America.

Mike said...

Patriot, rather than say Worf didnt like what you said, I would clarify.........we have had problems with trolls before both hacking the site and trying to incite or rile up Lydia and other bloggers to say things that could be construed as supporting a treasonous insurrection that could get them put on a watch list...............Worf has hosted the blog on his server to stop the hacking and dirty troll tactics .........i'm not sure if he is still hosting the website, but he doesnt nor do any of us want to get put on a watch list, do not fly list or any other Orwellian thing GWB the enemy of freedom and democracy has created..

We all vehemently oppose GWB, but dont feel violence or treason is the answer I think Bush will fail in his objective for world for his objective for nihilisticaly breaking down societal order and replacing it with chaos......he is succeeding smashingly on the front.........instead of the Midas touch Bush has the Crapola touch he is a total failure that EVERYthing he touches turns to shit!

an average patriot said...

Yes I know! Worfeus expressed his reasons and concerns. I would never want to cause any problems for anyone. I was just expressing what it would take before any constructive action is taken.
No one that I am aware of would advocate violence. You wouldn't know this but I am incapable of it.
My search for the truth and getting it out is my tool. Thanks for the verification Mike you right on and too funny.

Larry said...

Democracy is the neocon feel good catch phrase to justify their push to take over mideast oil fields, thus taking over the world.

A power hungry little man, with a desire to one up his daddy he has always envied, coupled with the evil intentions of Cheney and Rove, have given rise to this mindless dictator of tomorrow.

an average patriot said...

Always nice to hear from you. Democracy does not exist today in Bush's America. This is not our America this is the perverted one Bush has created and he is not done yet.
Democracy is merely the feel good catch word thrown around so Bush can snow everyone and impliment his dire for average Americans new world order and we are letting him do it.