Wednesday, June 11, 2008

Bush tells Europe No regrets over attacking Iraq(n) as he continues his real goal of war with Iran!


more shortly! Used enough force but too much mouth this guy is a friggen war mongering idiot!

What a friggen idiot. He just can't shut up! President Bush, in an interview with the Times of London, acknowledged that using gun-slinging rhetoric in the past made the world see him as a "guy really anxious for war" in Iraq, and he aims to leave a legacy of international diplomacy for tackling Iran. In the interview, he expressed regret at the bitter divisions over the war and said that he was troubled about how the United States had been misunderstood. "I think that in retrospect I could have used a different tone, a different rhetoric," he said. Phrases such as "bring them on" or "dead or alive," he said, "indicated to people that I was, you know, not a man of peace." He also told the Times he found it very painful "to put youngsters in harm’s way," adding "I try to meet with as many of the families as I can. And I have an obligation to comfort and console as best as I possibly can. I also have an obligation to make sure that those lives were not lost in vain."

Bush said that his focus for his final six months in office was to secure agreement on issues such as establishing a Palestinian state and to "leave behind a series of structures that makes it easier for the next president." He is concerned that Barack Obama, if he is elected president, might open cracks in the West’s united front towards Tehran’s nuclear ambitions. And he is convinced that when his successor arrives and assesses "what will work or what won’t work in dealing with Iran," the new president will stick with the current policy. Bush's comments echo those made The interview comments follow comments Bush made in May to the Israeli Knesset that were interpreted by some as an attack on Obama's willingness to meeting with leader of Iran and others. Bush criticized politicians who would negotiate with "terrorists and radicals" and compared that approach to the appeasement of the Nazis prior to World War II. Bush Disputes War-Hungry Image, Affirms Tough Stance Toward Iran

What a friggen idiot! he is making it more difficult by the minute! At the same time, he is doing his damnedest to ensure we are there forever! President Bush said Wednesday he is confident the United States would reach an agreement on the role of U.S. forces in Iraq, calling opposition to a U.S. proposal part of the "noise" of a freer Iraqi society. Bush, appearing at a news conference here with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, said that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki "appreciates our presence there" and suggested that much of the local opposition to a status of forces agreement was based on inaccurate media reports and misunderstandings.

"There's all kinds of noise in their system and our system," Bush said. ". . . I think we'll get the agreement done." Top Iraqi officials are calling for a dramatic reduction of the U.S. role in Iraq after the United Nations mandate for the U.S. military presence in the country expires later this year. Iraqi critics complain that the agreement proposed by the United States would turn Iraq into a virtual colony and allow the United States to maintain nearly 60 bases in their country indefinitely.

Bush administration officials say a deal is necessary to preserve order in the battered country, and that a new agreement "will not involve permanent bases, nor will it bind any future president to troop levels." Bush's remarks followed a meeting with Merkel at Schloss Meseberg, a restored 18th century Prussian manor house that now serves as the German government guest house. Bush visited Merkel as part of a farewell tour of Europe that will take him to Rome later Wednesday and then to Paris and London. At the news conference, Merkel echoed Bush in warning Iran that the European Union could pursue additional penalties if the regime in Tehran does not allow open inspections of its uranium enrichment efforts. The chancellor told German reporters on Monday that Bush's impending departure will usher in a "a new period" or "a new time" -- translations differed -- in transatlantic relations. Bush Confident Iraq Troop Level Agreement Will Be Reached as he instigates war with Iran

Noise! a free Democratic Iraq! Yeah like a Democratic America! He wants peace! He is not a war monger! He just wants to stay in Iraq until he can attack Iran and things are heating up with Pakistan! Peace President my Eye!

James Joiner
Gardner Ma
www.anaveragepatriot.com

35 comments:

Weaseldog said...

Shorter: It's not what you do, but how you justify yourself.

He should have been on Jeffrey Dahlmer's defense team.

an average patriot said...

I hate to say it but by todays standards you are entirely right! I absolutely refuse to believe the fool says the world is better today because he got rid of Saddam. WTF? I just want to scream!

an average patriot said...

I hate to say it but by todays standards you are entirely right! I absolutely refuse to believe the fool says the world is better today because he got rid of Saddam. WTF? I just want to scream!

Weaseldog said...

Is that noise the sound of gunfire and shelling?

DivaJood said...

He is completely delusional.

Weaseldog said...

Brother Tim, check this out. (H/T Petropest Launch Pad)

LONDON (Reuters) - World oil production fell by 0.2 percent in 2007, the first decline since 2002, and proven oil reserves were flat, BP said in an annual review released on Wednesday...

an average patriot said...

Wease
I hate to say it but we should joke about that while we can. That is a very real possibility much in thanks to the war mongering peace President and the angst he has set in motion!
One of my sons just left so I am just getting to this, sorry!

an average patriot said...

diva
That as you know is putting it mildly. His lunacy and willingness to play and sound the obvious fool never ceases to stupify me.

an average patriot said...

wease I hope brother comes by!
You really have to wonder why output is dropping since everyone says they are maxed out. I know there are a lot of problems in Africa plus China is getting their oil too. Just wait until Bush attacks Iran and see how screwed up things will get.
It kills me! The Republican answer is always dig in ANWR and that is just a small amount and wouldn't get to market for 10 years. Hell there may not even be a market by then!

Weaseldog said...

Like the movie and TV Series 'Mash 4077th' proved, sometimes the best way to deal with a heartbreaking subject is with laughter.

I had a gut feeling that the EIA and IEIA figures were bogus. The problem to begin with, is that the last few months of every graph that they produce, all show the same thing. They all show growth. Only after the reports are published, do they correct their charts with actual data.

It was hard to reconcile their charts showing rosy production growth, with a recent gasoline receipt.

Do the Republican politicians really want to drill in ANWR? Who would they blame next? What excuse could they use after that?

A bus driver the other day, told me that all of our gasoline problems are the fault of Iran.

"Things are going to get a lot worse, before they get worse"
"We're all in this together, by ourselves." - Lily Tomlin

Robert Rouse said...

Bush said that, "he was troubled about how the United States had been misunderstood." What the Hell is he talking about. It is GEORGE W. BUSH the rest of the world is worried about and they do not misunderstand him at all. They know he's a tyrannical DICK! The majority of the people around the world understand that most Americans hate the SOB and his policies as much as they do.

Weaseldog said...

Bush reminds me of the South Park episode, "Red Hot Catholic Love".

In it, a new fad of shoving food up the bum and pooping out the mouth, had taken hold.

I can't help but be reminded of that episode, when I watch him speak these days.

an average patriot said...

Wease
You have to laugh! You can't take this seriously because it is beyond our control. You bet your sweet Bippee they want to dig in ANWR. What's new! All the Republican's are on board including McCain and of course the idiot is leading the way. Every time the price of oil comes up Bush blames it on Congress and Dems for not okaying new digging and ANWR is just one of the places. It pisses me off knowing it is just a small amount and would take 10 years to get to maqrket and make no difference in prices. Nothing will. We need to switch to Hydrogen or something equitable and quick but that won't happen because all the power monry is in oil!
As things worsen in the country and th world I am going to discuss this in another context tomorrow!

an average patriot said...

Robert
All Right! Bush is an idiot! Glasd to hear you speak up! What stinks is bush has not been taken wrong. The world has him dead to rights and I am afraid along with others here that Israel then him are going to go after Iran before we can hole elections. Then prices and the Sh*@t will really hit the fan!

Dave Dubya said...

It seems just like yesterday when all the Bush thugs lied about not wanting permanent military bases in Iraq.

So now Bush wants to strong arm the Iraqis into letting us have a permanent military presence along with mercenaries unaccountable to any law. He's blackmailing them by withholding Iraqi assets. They may even still tell Bush to shove it.

We sure don't want that now, do we. That would seem too much like real Iraqi freedom.

an average patriot said...

He won't stop! His hypocrisy and idiocy is so obvious and sickening and the scum can care less. He is such a scum! Did I say that! he will not stop until he goes after the reason for attacking Iraq, Iran and this entire middle east is embroiled and I believe Israel will get it going before the election then the Sh@#t will really hits the fan here and around the world. Ohh Mannn!

Weaseldog said...

Jim, hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's a carrier, like electric wires...

There are no alternatives that will keep this party growing. None scale and provide enough power to match oil and non have the potential of infinite growth.

We are bumping at the top of our limits, and we're going to have to scale back, because the universe will force us too.

Eventually we'll have to scale way, way back.

Some problems just don't have solutions.

But war provides a distraction. And most every culture blows itself out on war on the way down. It looks like we want to do the same thing.

Brother Tim said...

Hey Guys--
I'm gonna try to put up a post tomorrow of my opinion of why the price of oil/gas is skyrocketing.

Although I was a commercial shrimper in my younger years, I spent the off-seasons (and a few bad seasons) working in the oil fields and refineries of Louisiana.

I am NOT an investor, but I AM a consumer. I have a good grasp on what is befalling us.

I will produce some rock-solid facts. This is a manufactured situation we're in; partly us, and partly foreign interests. I will start getting my links together, and hopefully have it posted on my site tomorrow.

an average patriot said...

I must be making an error definitely drawing a blank! What is it that only has water as its waste? I was just checking hydrogen there were some good sites and their are a lot of uses I have to think some more I know I did something on this!

Larry said...

The money war Jim:

War, Inc.

By Mike Ferner

"So what is our mistake? We are also human beings. Treat us like human beings," Gulalae, a 37 year-old Afghan mother, told the Toledo Blade from the dust, hunger and fear of the Shamshatoo refugee camp in Pakistan. She calls Osama bin Laden an “outsider” and says that because of him, “Afghanistan is made into a hell for others.”

Grim does not begin to describe the conditions Gulalae and her family endure. In one three-month period, in just one portion of Shamshatoo, bacteria-related dehydration killed a child nearly every day. The misery in this refugee city is like a grain of sand on the beach of suffering that is Afghanistan. But Americans know little of it.

If you only watch mainstream press accounts you’d never know that within the first three months of “America’s New War,” civilian deaths from U.S. bombing in Afghanistan surpassed 3,700—more than were killed in the attacks of September 11. The toll from unexploded cluster bombs, land mines, destroyed water and sewer systems and depleted uranium shells will no doubt reach into the hundreds of thousands. Add the additional innocents sure to die as the international cycle of violence continues, and our war to end terrorism seems calculated to do just the opposite – which points to a disturbing but plausible reason why we chose war: our government needs Osama bin Laden, just like we needed the Evil Empire of the Soviet Union.

For a year and a decade after the USSR dissolved in 1990, it looked like we would have to settle for homosexuals as the national boogeymen, but al Qaeda serves to crank up the armament budget much better than do homosexuals. We fool ourselves if we deny there was considerable behind-closed-doors celebrating in the board rooms of some of the biggest U.S. corporations when a distinctly unpopular president decided to become a War President and invade Afghanistan; then through the bloody logic of empire, Iraq.

Before the Evil Empire we had the Hun, the despicable Spaniards bombing the Maine before that, and the murderous Mexicans were in the way when we wanted Texas. Similar frights can be traced back through the British Empire and earlier than that to the Gauls up in France whom Caesar had to put to the sword to keep Rome safe.

These days government has much more sophisticated means of monitoring and spying on citizens, so the two plums of power and control now sway temptingly before those who would be our servants. How likely is it that without sufficient fright citizens would abide a PATRIOT Act, or partially disrobe to board a plane, or shrug off wiretaps or multitudes of surveillance cameras now invading city landscapes?

But returning for a moment to the economic incentives for war, the following explains as well as any and better than most: “War is a racket. It always has been…A racket is best described as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small ‘inside’ group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many.”

Words of a radical peacenik? Only if a Marine Corps Major General qualifies as one. In his twilight years General Smedley Butler unburdened his soul as did other career militarists, such as Admiral Hyman Rickover, who admitted that fathering the nuclear Navy was a mistake and Robert McNamara, who almost found the words to apologize for overseeing the Viet Nam war. Though unlike Rickover and McNamara, Butler named names and exposed for whom the system works.

“I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914” Butler wrote in 1933. “I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.” Butler acknowledged that he’d spent most of his 33 years in the Marines as “a high class muscle man for Big Business, Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.”

Thus did Butler simply and effectively expose a largely unknown truth—how the military serves the interests of the propertied elite and their wealth-gathering machines, the corporations.

Perhaps more commonly known is the corrupting practice of war profiteering.

“...Only twenty-four at the (Civil) war's beginning, (J. Pierpont) Morgan perceived from the first that wars were for the shrewd to profit from and poor to die in,” wrote Robert Boyer and Herbert Morais in Labor’s Untold Story. “He received a tip that a store of government-owned rifles had been condemned as defective and with the simplicity of genius he bought them from the government for $17,500 on one day and sold them back to the government on the next for $110,000...A Congressional committee investigating his little deal said of him and other hijacking profiteers, ‘Worse than traitors are the men who, pretending loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation.’”

Lest we think such traditions are no longer observed, consider the case of Eagle-Picher Technologies Corp., producer of sophisticated batteries to power the guidance systems of “smart” bombs. Workers claim they were ordered to cover up defects on millions of batteries – defects that would ultimately cause guidance systems to fail. How many innocent civilians were killed by bombs guided by defective Eagle-Picher Corp. batteries?

Ignoring the indictable war profiteers like J.P. Morgan, consider just one instance of legal war profits and how they allow the few “inside the racket” to benefit economically and politically – for generations – at the expense of the many. The du Pont Corporation will suffice.

Compared to some of its fellow racketeers, the du Pont Corporation’s profits during WWI look downright patriotic. The company whose gunpowder saved the world for democracy saw its average annual pre-war profit jump from $6,000,000 to nearly 10 times that amount during the war.

With this wealth the du Pont family was able to buy nearly a quarter of all General Motors Corporation stock by the mid-1920’s. Not only would that become a shrewd investment during GM’s successful campaign to destroy urban mass transit systems, but who better than a du Pont to run President Eisenhower’s Bureau of Public Roads and develop the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways along with Eisenhower Defense Secretary (and former GM President), Charles Wilson?

If war profits provide such a good return on investment, imagine how much planning goes into winning the geostrategic spoils of war? For a peek inside this game there are few better tour guides than President Carter’s National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Having also served on President Reagan’s Defense Department Commission on Integrated Long-Term Strategy, Brzezinski was well-qualified to write his 1997 book, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives. It’s one of those books that beg the question, “why would anybody actually put this stuff in writing?” It also provides useful documentation for those who find it more than a little odd that “Zbiggy” has more recently joined critics of the war in Iraq.

Brzezinski describes the Europe-Asia landmass as the key to global dominance. He asserts that the fall of the Soviet Union cleared the way for the U.S. to become the first non-Eurasian power to dominate this critical area, “…and America's global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained...”

In 1977 he named the Central Asian “stans” as the next center of conflict for world domination, and in light of expected Asian economic growth, he called this area around the Caspian Sea “…infinitely more important as a potential economic prize: an enormous concentration of natural gas and oil reserves…dwarf(ing) those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea…in addition to important minerals, including gold.”

The former Reagan National Security Council member reasoned: “It follows that America's primary interest is to help ensure that no single power comes to control this geopolitical space and that the global community has unhindered financial and economic access to it.”

He further deduced: “That puts a premium on maneuver and manipulation in order to prevent the emergence of a hostile coalition that could eventually seek to challenge America's primacy.” Leaving nothing to doubt, he clarified “…To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep (satellites) pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together.”

For those foolish enough to imagine planet Earth not being ruled by the U.S., he warns that "America's withdrawal from the world—or because of the sudden emergence of a successful rival—would produce massive international instability. It would prompt global anarchy.”

Brzezinski advises to “keep the barbarians from coming together,” and predicts “global anarchy” if U.S. dominance is threatened. The cold warrior’s language, while picturesque, is not as precise as that used by Thomas Friedman, yet another acolyte of empire who now wants to distance himself from a badly mismanaged adventure in Iraq.

The foreign affairs columnist for the NY Times in his much-hyped book, The Lexus and the Olive Tree: Understanding Globalization, wrote: “Markets function and flourish only when property rights are secure and can be enforced…And the hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley's technologies to flourish is called the US Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps.”

With a Silicon Valley reference, Friedman updates General Butler’s statement that “I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests.” Notwithstanding Friedman’s update, oil retains its century-old rating as the imperial standard – now with Afghanistan and Iraq at center stage. UNOCAL Corp. for one does not hesitate to demand that Afghanistan be made safe for American oil interests. “From the outset,” a corporate executive testified to Congress in 1998, “we have made it clear that construction of our proposed ($2.5 billion Afghanistan) pipeline cannot begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders and our company. UNOCAL envisions the creation of a Central Asian Oil Pipeline Consortium…that will utilize and gather oil from existing pipeline infrastructure in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Russia.”

Smedley Butler learned that in war “nations acquire additional territory if they are victorious. They just take it.” With leasing more in vogue than ever, getting the use of additional territory – call it property –can be more profitable than actually acquiring it. But the end result is the same. “This newly acquired territory is promptly exploited by the few,” Butler explained, “the self-same few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.”

A small measure of historical perspective makes America’s latest war much less surprising. Yes, this time it’s oil. But as important as that commodity is, it’s not oil alone for which we are killing. It’s to insure that human rights are subjugated to property rights. Sometimes we call property “oil,” sometimes we call it “land,” sometimes we call it “human beings.” The names change, but the song remains the same throughout history.

For example, it is illuminating to read a few lines from our Constitution, such as Article 4, Section 2. Imbedded in the most fundamental law of our land was the duty to return property in the form of runaway slaves and indentured servants to the owners. The Commerce Clause and the Supreme Court’s interpretation of it has insured that property rights trump citizens’ rights to govern themselves as described in the new expose, “Gaveling Down the Rabble.” And nobody who works for a living needs a source citation to tell them that corporations have more free speech rights than human beings.

That’s why the United States government didn’t choose to seek justice through a criminal prosecution after September 11. Our government wasn’t interested in justice. It was interested in empire and property. Some things never do change.

Larry said...

What about this Jim:

Why the Oil Price Is High

By Paul Craig Roberts

How to explain the oil price? Why is it so high? Are we running out? Are supplies disrupted, or is the high price a reflection of oil company greed or OPEC greed. Are Chavez and the Saudis conspiring against us?

In my opinion, the two biggest factors in oil’s high price are the weakness in the US dollar’s exchange value and the liquidity that the Federal Reserve is pumping out.

The dollar is weak because of large trade and budget deficits, the closing of which is beyond American political will. As abuse wears out the US dollar’s reserve currency role, sellers demand more dollars as a hedge against its declining exchange value and ultimate loss of reserve currency status.

In an effort to forestall a serious recession and further crises in derivative instruments, the Federal Reserve is pouring out liquidity that is financing speculation in oil futures contracts. Hedge funds and investment banks are restoring their impaired capital structures with profits made by speculating in highly leveraged oil future contracts, just as real estate speculators flipping contracts pushed up home prices. The oil futures bubble, too, will pop, hopefully before new derivatives are created on the basis of high oil prices.

There are other factors affecting the price of oil. The prospect of an Israeli/US attack on Iran has increased current demand in order to build stocks against disruption. No one knows the consequence of such an ill-conceived act of aggression, and the uncertainty pushes up the price of oil as the entire Middle East could be engulfed in conflagration. However, storage facilities are limited, and the impact on price of larger inventories has a limit.

Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi recently stated, “There is no justification for the current rise in prices.” What the minister means is that there are no shortages or supply disruptions. He means no real reasons as distinct from speculative or psychological reasons.

The run up in oil price coincides with a period of heightened US and Israeli military aggression in the Middle East. However, the biggest jump has been in the last 18 months.

When Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, the average price of oil that year was about $27 per barrel, or about $31 in inflation adjusted 2007 dollars. The price rose another $10 in 2004 to an average annual price of $42 (in 2007 dollars), another $12 in 2005, $7 in 2006, and $4 in 2007 to $65. But in the last few months the price has more than doubled to about $135. It is difficult to explain a $70 jump in price in terms other than speculation.

Oil prices have been high in the past. Until 2008, the record monthly oil price was $104 in December 1979 (measured in December 2007 dollars). As recently as 1998 the real price of oil was lower than in 1946 when the nominal price of oil was $1.63 per barrel. During the Bush regime, the price of oil in 2007 dollars has risen from $27 to approximately $135. (see http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/Historical_Oil_Prices_Table.asp )

Possibly, the rise in the oil price was held down, prior to the recent jump, by expectations that Democrats would eventually end the conflict and restrain Israel in the interest of Middle East peace and justice for the Palestinians. Now that Obama has pledged allegiance to AIPAC and adopted Bush’s position toward Iran, the high oil price could be a forecast that US/Israeli policy is likely to result in substantial supply disruptions. Still, the recent Israeli statements that an attack on Iran was “inevitable” only jumped the oil price about $8.

Perhaps more difficult to understand than the high price of oil is the low US long term interest rates. US interest rates are actually below the rate of inflation, to say nothing of the imperiled exchange value of the dollar. Economists who assume rational participants in rational markets cannot explain why lenders would indefinitely accept interest rates below the rate of inflation.

Of course, Americans don’t get real inflation numbers from their government and have not since the Consumer Price Index was rigged during the Clinton administration to hold down Social Security payments by denying retirees their full cost of living adjustments. According to statistician John Williams ( www.shadowstats.com ), using the pre-Clinton era measure of the CPI produces a current CPI of about 7.5%.

Understating inflation makes real GDP growth appear higher. If inflation were properly measured, the US has probably experienced no real GDP growth in the 21st century.

Williams reports that for decades political administrations have fiddled with the inflation and employment numbers to make themselves look slightly better. The cumulative effect has been to deprive these measurements of veracity. If I understand Williams, today both inflation and unemployment rates, as originally measured, are around 12%.

By pumping out money in an effort to forestall recession and paper over balance sheet problems, the Federal Reserve is driving up commodity and food prices in general. Yet American real incomes are not growing. Even without jobs offshoring, US economic policy has put the bulk of the population on a path to lower living standards.

The crisis that looms for the US is the loss of world currency role. Once the dollar loses that role, the US government will not be able to finance its operations by borrowing abroad, and foreigners will cease to finance the massive US trade deficit. This crisis will eliminate the US as a world power.

an average patriot said...

brother
I agree with you and I look forward to what you have to say. I see no way out of this and I believe we are screwed. maybe you are right wease war is just a diversion but damn I will ask then what but we know. Unbelievable! this is all happening so damn fast now!

an average patriot said...

Damn Larry
I have to get going now and will have to look at those in the morning. hope you guys enjoy, adios for now!

Mike S said...

"His lunacy and willingness to play and sound the obvious fool never ceases to stupify me"

One question: Why do you think he's 'playing' the fool??

No matter who's in office, until the American people start holding their LOCALLY ELECTED members of State and Federal government's feet to the proverbial fire and demanding moral, ethical, and somewhat altruistic performance of their duties or vote them out, nothing will ever change. We can't expect the "Manor House" be kept clean by those who foul their own homes. "If you sleep with dogs, you awaken with fleas." Our government works for US and it's way past time we demanded a bit of proper performance or fire them. My employees don't treat me the way Uncle Sugar does because they know I'd fire them. Why should I accept less of those who I help pay to run the country?

To quote Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and they are us!"

Old Indian go shut up now:)

Weaseldog said...

Jim, yes. If you burn hydrogen, you get water.

If you dump water on superheated coal, you get hydrogen. You can also make it from natural gas and with huge amounts of electricity.

You have to burn something or get the energy from somewhere, to put the energy into water, to separate the hydrogen and oxygen.

Hydrogen requires a lot more energy to produce, than you get back. It's like investing at a 90% loss.

Essentially, it's a way to inefficiently store energy in a medium that is costly, and leaks out of everything.

More appropriately, it's a way to subsidize corporate donors.

Battery and capacitor technology serves the same purpose and is many times more efficient. And less costly. But less costly reduces graft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEstor

On another note...
Hybrids get lower mileage than diesels can, but have more parts that cost more.

It's always about the money.

Weaseldog said...

Every crisis comes from a convergence of factors.

Factions form that cherry pick the factors that they prefer. Each creates theories that support a conclusion that provides a scapegoat. "Even only someone wasn't doing this, or if only someone was doing this..."

World oil production in in the toilet. If there were spare capacity, the cheaters would end the shortage.

Shortages lead to higher prices and obscene profits. Many in the industry love obscene profits.

Saudi Sheiks need to keep their citizens happy. They all get a portion of the oil revenue, so that they don't have to work (In theory). If they announced that Gwahar was running out, it would lead to riots. So they tell lies.

They kep telling us in 2000 and 2001 that they would increase production. But water cut in their wells, brought down production, triggering the overdue market crash. Through heavy investment, they brought production up some, for a couple of years. But they are back in decline now.

Oil and gas prices will never come down. There's no one that can stop the increases.

Even if you fixed the Fed and the refinery problems, prices would continue to rise. These things are predictable events.

For instance, civilizations always inflate their currency into worthlessness in order to account for resource shortages. So with oil running tight, the obvious solution is to inflate the currency, to drive the economy, that is powered by the consumption of declining energy.

It's the same idea, that if you pay more for a gallon of gasoline, your car will go faster and get better mileage. This misunderstanding comes from 100 years of constant energy growth. Constant energy growth allows the money supply to grow as more industry is created. Economist make the mistake of believing that money makes engines turn and factories hum. When in fact, these things are powered by the consumption of finite fossil fuels.

The relationship can be expressed like this.

V = E / M
Where:
V = Value of Money
E = Energy Available for Work.
M = Quantity of Money

As energy stagnates and the money supply increases, prices go up. They go up for everything.

Because E->I (energy produces industry).

So the equation above could become:
V = I / M

an average patriot said...

Wease
Before I get going here. Give this a glance if you will. I couldn't get the link to work on hydrogen but there is enough info in my post. Any here are a few and you may find the one 2/06 interesting! Old hydrogen research

an average patriot said...

Larry
You know this is true and just a small part of it.
If you only watch mainstream press accounts you’d never know that within the first three months of “America’s New War,” civilian deaths from U.S. bombing in Afghanistan surpassed 3,700—more than were killed in the attacks of September 11. The toll from unexploded cluster bombs, land mines, destroyed water and sewer systems and depleted uranium shells will no doubt reach into the hundreds of thousands. Add the additional innocents sure to die as the international cycle of violence continues, and our war to end terrorism seems calculated to do just the opposite – which points to a disturbing but plausible reason why we chose war: our government needs Osama bin Laden, just like we needed the Evil Empire of the Soviet Union.
You also know we have ruined the middle east for the future with war and depleted uranium before the war even spreads and turns nuclear involving the world.
You also know Bin laden and the so called terrorists are needed to further this money making new order scheme and we are the real enemy.
Then there is the state of the entire planet and the perceived purposeful bringing about of the end of days. Any way you look at it this entire mess is still just taking shale and the agenda cloaking lies will never stop!

an average patriot said...

Larry
Coupled with Bush the enabler and speculators I agree with this! In my opinion, the two biggest factors in oil’s high price are the weakness in the US dollar’s exchange value and the liquidity that the Federal Reserve is pumping out. Anyway you look at it nothing will bring the prices down because "they" know we are powerless! As I keep saying, wait until Bush or whoever attacks Iran and really screws up the world. This is just beginning!

Weaseldog said...

Jim, as I expected, you wrote some good articles there.

I've never argued that hydrogen isn't useful.

But there are two serious problems that we will never overcome.

1. Hydrogen conversions waste a lot of energy.
2. We're running out of all of the things that make hydrogen relatively cheap to produce.

Fertilizers and other chemicals are going up in price because natural gas is getting short. Natural gas is the best feedstock we have at the moment to make hydrogen.

If we did convert to a hydrogen economy, we'd have to cut way back on fertilizer production. We'd be burning food in our gas tanks.

When natural gas production does go into decline, all of the products that you wrote about, that use hydrogen will go into decline, also, because hydrogen production will decline.

The root of our problem is that we are a people, attempting to expand to infinity on a finite planet. We are just running out of things for our civilization to eat.

an average patriot said...

Hi Make!
Glad to see you! playing the fool is just verbiage. He knows what he is doing and getting his way is all that matters. What stinks is many will never wake up and realize they can not trust the Goveernment and must get involved themselves.
We have said it numerous times here but yes we have met the enemy and it is us. We came together in 1776 to repel the enemy within. Today we better come together and quick because the enemy is within and (mis)leading us.

an average patriot said...

Wease
Thanks! We can both agree that there is no way out despite the lies. We that get it must just relax, hunker down, and survive as we are just powerless and along for the ride!

an average patriot said...

mike S you Indian you, bear with me I will get to you I am having a slow start and I still have a son around for a couple more days!

Weaseldog said...

Yes Jim. It all keeps coming back to those essential points.

Working through this process for me, was like going through the five stages of grief.

(Stolen from Wikipedia)
1. Denial:
* Example - "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening."

2. Anger:
* Example - "Why me? It's not fair!" "NO! NO! How can you accept this!"

3. Bargaining:
* Example - "Just let me live to see my children graduate."; "I'll do anything, can't you stretch it out? A few more years."

4. Depression:
* Example - "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die . . . What's the point?"

5. Acceptance:
* Example - "It's going to be OK."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."

an average patriot said...

Wease!
You know, I have to say in a nutshell that is what it boils down to for we and as I say often and was telling my son who is visitiong yesterday, It boils down to one thing! It is life and just smile and deal with it!