Bush is setting up Custer's Last Stand in Iraq! What will be the outcome this time?I consider myself pretty lucky of late to have made the acquaintance of some from the middle east who have been educating me as to middle eastern emotions and thoughts. I have taken the liberty to post them here in hopes of educating more of us and to hopefully engage in a useful dialogue as to what is unfolding in the middle east and the repercussions of a permanent American military presence in the middle of all this.
I hope those I am including think this is a good idea because they are educating me and I would like to spread the wealth to all our benefit. Per suggestion yesterday I will note their input in blue so as to denote them from my own. I was corrected right off the bat when I mistakenly termed the rift between Sunni and Shiite as hate.
Reply! I think we have to separate what is ideological rift from actual hate. The rift between Sunnis and Shias was there from the beginning but there is no hate. Spin, yes. I think AhmadiNejad's rhetoric about Palestine is actually damaging the Palestinian cause in Iran (but serving well AhmadiNejad's popularity across the Arab world) because Iranians do not want to wage war with the US and Israel because of Palestine, although they are sympathetic to the cause. I understand that.
I hope those I am including think this is a good idea because they are educating me and I would like to spread the wealth to all our benefit. Per suggestion yesterday I will note their input in blue so as to denote them from my own. I was corrected right off the bat when I mistakenly termed the rift between Sunni and Shiite as hate.
Reply! I think we have to separate what is ideological rift from actual hate. The rift between Sunnis and Shias was there from the beginning but there is no hate. Spin, yes. I think AhmadiNejad's rhetoric about Palestine is actually damaging the Palestinian cause in Iran (but serving well AhmadiNejad's popularity across the Arab world) because Iranians do not want to wage war with the US and Israel because of Palestine, although they are sympathetic to the cause. I understand that.
I think also that if AhmadiNejad was able to score points in the Arab world and the shia Arabs, it is because Saudi Arabia, who owns most Arab media, has been waging a sectarian war on Iran and the Shias while not doing anything for the Palestinian cause, only harm in my opinion. They started it through Saddam, the Sunni, and when they realized that Saddam, despite US help, was not able to overthrow the mullah regime, they let him down and are now espousing Bush's sectarian policy in the ME.
Saudi Arabia has lost the hearts and minds of Arab faithful and citizens, the same people whom it is supposed to represent as a religious authority. It has even lost the hearts and minds of its own citizen who are very critical of the royal family. This is a very backward family and a very backward regime.
They know, since 9/11, which is a kind of internal revolution against the royal family waged on a foreign soil, that their only hope now for surviving the rift between them and their 'subjects' is to fan flames of hate between Sunnis and Shias.
But it will not work this way. The most successful religious leaders in the Arab street now are Shias, and not Sunnis. There are convergent interests in waging a war against Iran between the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia. Even since its inception, SA's royal family has worked against Muslim and Arab interests and for its own interest and survival as a royal ruling family. I have a post on this, it is in my permanent links (selection of articles) 'the Lawrence of Arabia syndrome'. It is the Saud family who 'sold' Palestine to the Zionists.
Now for Persians and Arabs, they are very different. The fact that some Arabs are Shias, and most Persians are, do not erase the difference. Their histories are fundamentally different and also their languages. I know that some Persians might feel contempt for Arabs, but I am not of that mentality and I don't resent that. This kind of national pride pitted against another nation or ethny can be found everywhere and is a bit stupid and folkloric in my opinion. We are all human beings.
One has to remember that ideological rifts do not necessarily translate into hate unless hate is provoked and spinned. I am from the opinion that a war against Iran is criminal, as was the war against Saddam, and enhances the risk of inflaming the whole ME.
I am afraid I can agree with what she said especially the last paragraph in light of Bush's intentions in Iraq to set up a permanent presence. . I was using the word Hate to represent the Rift between Sunni and Shiite. I actually do not know the feelings they have towards each other. I only hear of the intolerance of the sects to each other at least by leaders and hard liners. I have found that the average citizen of every nation is very tolerant of others and wants peace and prosperity and only to not be bothered.
I don't know about damaging the Palestinian cause but I do believe AhmadiNejad has gained favor in defending the Muslim Religion. I think even Sunni Muslims would rally behind AhmadiNejad when Bush attacks Iran as I believe he will.Saudi Arabia has alienated many of their own citizens and at any rate without a doubt all Iranian citizens at least would rally behind AhmadiNejad even though many may disagree with him now.
I certainly agree with Saudi Arabia fanning the flames of sectarian violence to save themselves. That makes total sense. It has been my contention from the beginning that the sectarian civil war Bush created in Iraq that is being supported by Iran and Saudi Arabia as was expected, will engulf the entire middle east. Then it will get worse.
It amazes me and I decided to discuss this today, that Bush is talking drawing down troop strength while he is proposing to put our military in the middle of that exploding sectarian violence for generations to come as a Korea style force.
That supposed draw down is not the beginning of the end for our military interference but the beginning of the end for our military if it happens. It would be an enormous Custer's last stand. I do believe that a war against Iran is as criminal as the war against Iraq but It will happen. It is only one reason why Bush attacked Iraq in the first place to get our military in the middle east.
It is why he wants to leave us there. The whole middle east will be enflamed as was obvious from the beginning and it is sickening hearing the lies and watching this unfold. It will happen! Again, one of my contentions from the beginning was that our long term presence in the middle east would serve to unite them all in order to get us out of the middle east and once we were removed they would then turn on each other.
I would like to hear your take on the results of a permanent American military presence in the middle east, of particular interest is the thoughts of those from the middle east. Sounds like Custer's last Stand on a Grand Scale to me.
